AW: [STOCKPHOTO] Stock Submissions & EXIF Data

[David Barr]

Doing this deletes all the exif-information and the keywording is done
seperately after this.
Also i must say that i have some pictures running with several agencies that
are made with a compact digital camera and there where no complains about
those pictures :o)
Greetings
Dietmar

Hi Deitmar

I have a similar workflow but saving a copy as a JPG thankfully does
not remove the information about the camera or any of the other
associated keywords and contact details.

I had a look at your site and if a client pulls a picture off of your
screen to try in a comp and then can't remember where they grabbed
the picture from how would they find you with all your info fields
empty? You don't even include a copyright notice.

If the client keeps that picture on their computer and at a later
date unable to find you,claims the picture as an orphan work and uses
it on a web page would your have any recourse? I know that orphan
works legislation has been stopped for the moment in the US but just
in case it does pass at some time I would prefer that all info remain
with my pictures.

David Barr

[Thomas Hallstein]

David,

What I meant by screen-grab is a screen shot also known as Print Screen.

Using drag and drop as you did is the same as "save picture as" on the right-click context menu.

Tom


----- Original Message -----
From: David Barr
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: AW: [STOCKPHOTO] Stock Submissions & EXIF Data

Just a small clarification here: Metadata is not copied when you do a
screen-grab. You're only snatching pixels. If a person saves an image via
"Save Picture as" in their browser, they are copying the complete
file and will
get any embedded metadata.
Best to All,
Tom
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Thomas Hallstein

Hi Tom

I just visited my own home page at http://www.photobar.com and pulled
of the happy new year picture by dragging it onto my desktop and it
came with all the embedded data?

Is this different because I'm using a MAC?

David Barr
--
Photobar Agricultural Stock Photography
Simplify your Search <http://www.photobar.com>Photobar

<http://www.cama.org/>CAMA
<http://www.nama.org/>NAMA




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[David Riecks]

i use photoshop to run all the
images into .jpg.
Doing this deletes all the exif-information and the keywording is done
seperately after this.

Dietmar:

Just saving an image as a Jpeg with photoshop
doesn't delete the EXIF data, unless you are
using the "Save For Web" (SFW) option.

Unfortunately, using the SFW option will also
remove ALL of your image metadata, not just EXIF.
PLUS you have to remember to check the ICC
profile box if you want that saved as well. Using
SFW is IMO, the fastest way to create Orphan images.

That's why, in the Metadata Manifesto
(http://metadatamanifesto.blogspot.com/) that we
made the suggestion that actions that remove
metadata should NOT be the default in how imaging
applications work, and that if metadata is to be
removed the user should be explicitly warned of
this in advance of their action.

There is an option buried in the Output Settings
dialog of the SFW feature (hidden beneath the
black triangle and using the "Edit Output
Settings" to reveal the dialog) that you might want to check out.

If you go in and make sure that the "Settings"
pull down is at "Default Settings" then change
the second pull down to "Saving Files" and make
sure that the "Include Copyright" box is checked
at the bottom of that dialog box before clicking
the OK button, then you might think that you are
saving your copyright information. However you'd
be wrong. That information no longer appears
within the IPTC, IPTC Core or EXIF sections of
your image. Instead, it's hidden somewhere
outside of those in a portion of the header that
is not used by any system of which I'm aware.

Here's what it looks like for a studio portrait that I tested this on.....

ÿØÿà JFIF d d ÿì «Ducky d @ A s h e r R
u n d e l l , s t u d i o p o r t r a i t
R ' © 2 0 0 6 D a v i d R i e c k s , a l
l r i g h t s r e s e r v e d ÿâXICC_PROFILE HLino mntrRGB XYZ Î

Nice, huh?

David


--
David Riecks (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
***@riecks.com http://www.riecks.com/
Midwest/Chicago ASMP

[Thomas Hallstein]

----- Original Message -----
From: David Barr

Post by David Barr
I had a look at your site and if a client pulls a picture off of your
screen to try in a comp and then can't remember where they grabbed
the picture from how would they find you with all your info fields
empty? You don't even include a copyright notice.

Just a small clarification here: Metadata is not copied when you do a
screen-grab. You're only snatching pixels. If a person saves an image via
"Save Picture as" in their browser, they are copying the complete file and will
get any embedded metadata.

Best to All,
Tom
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Thomas Hallstein
Outsight Photography
Santa Rosa, CA USA
http://www.outsight.com
i l l u s t r a t i o n t o i n s p i r a t i o n
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^

[David Barr]

Post by Thomas Hallstein
Just a small clarification here: Metadata is not copied when you do a
screen-grab. You're only snatching pixels. If a person saves an image via
"Save Picture as" in their browser, they are copying the complete file and will
get any embedded metadata.
Best to All,
Tom
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Thomas Hallstein

Hi Tom

I just visited my own home page at http://www.photobar.com and pulled
of the happy new year picture by dragging it onto my desktop and it
came with all the embedded data?

Is this different because I'm using a MAC?

David Barr

[David Riecks]

Post by Thomas Hallstein
I just visited my own home page at http://www.photobar.com and pulled
of the happy new year picture by dragging it onto my desktop and it
came with all the embedded data?
Is this different because I'm using a MAC?

David:

Yes, it's different. Dragging an image from a webpage with a mac is
the same as using the "right click" and save image as with a windows
computer. In that sense it's a "real image" rather than a screen
grab, and thus, can include metadata.

David


--
David Riecks (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
See the new Universal Photo Digi-Image Guidelines at http://www.updig.org/
Chairman, SAA Imaging Technology Standards Committee
Visit http://ControlledVocabulary.com if you are creating an image database

[Leonide Principe]

Hi all, I dont know if this is my distraction, but I cant preserve
IPTC and EXIF data in the Save for Web Photoshop option.
There is a way to do this?

Thanks for help, Leo






Leonide Principe - Amazon Stock Photography
Contact: ***@leonideprincipe.com
http://www.leonideprincipe.com

Post by David Riecks

Post by Thomas Hallstein
I just visited my own home page at http://www.photobar.com and pulled
of the happy new year picture by dragging it onto my desktop and it
came with all the embedded data?
Is this different because I'm using a MAC?

Yes, it's different. Dragging an image from a webpage with a mac is
the same as using the "right click" and save image as with a windows
computer. In that sense it's a "real image" rather than a screen
grab, and thus, can include metadata.
David
--
David Riecks (that's "i" before "e", but the "e" is silent)
See the new Universal Photo Digi-Image Guidelines at http://
www.updig.org/
Chairman, SAA Imaging Technology Standards Committee
Visit http://ControlledVocabulary.com if you are creating an image database

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Peter Dean]

Post by Leonide Principe
I cant preserve
IPTC and EXIF data in the Save for Web Photoshop option.
There is a way to do this?

Leo
Save as sRGB rather than "for web" which presumably is also same sRGB
but cleaned of all info.
We are currently processing images for a new website and found that
saving as sRGB to preserve metadata meant much bigger jpgs than we
wanted for the very small thumbs so we save these small 110 pixels for
web but the larger ( most useful to steal ;-) previews in sRGB with all
info intact. Even with a lot of compression small jpgs are relatively
large in file size in sRGB with preserved metadata. Its not an issue for
the larger previews which typically display one at a time and therefore
sensible to include data.

Pete

[Leonide Principe]

Thanks for the informations,
My workflow is oriented to Save for web because of smallest file: 50
kb file (500 px) on Save for web go to 150 Kb on Save As. Maybe in
the today broadband this not a problem, I have educated me to small
web files. I live in the forest, and sometime my connection is slow.
I add IPTC to my Saved for web file, because my keywording is very
dynamic, I change it permanently, with new informations or feed-back
from requests. My keywording center is not the Master file but the
caption-keywords database, where I take File Info at each image
output, to client or to the web). Each time I go to the database I
can improve keywords.

The question came with the EXIF Data: I need the Exif data in my web
file?
A Save for Web file cant have EXIF Data, these fields are disabled.

On this way thank for the ImageReady tip, which is more flexible,
despite more complexity in the workflow.
I was trying this less know application and there is a solution.
Resuming, if i need EXIF in small web file, I have to go to ImageReady.

Again, thanks for contributions, Leo




Leonide Principe - Amazon Stock Photography
Contato: ***@leonideprincipe.com
http://www.photoshelter.com/usr-show/U0000nKxqGuEZSYI
http://www.leonideprincipe.com/

Post by Peter Dean

Post by Leonide Principe
I cant preserve
IPTC and EXIF data in the Save for Web Photoshop option.
There is a way to do this?

Leo
Save as sRGB rather than "for web" which presumably is also same sRGB
but cleaned of all info.
We are currently processing images for a new website and found that
saving as sRGB to preserve metadata meant much bigger jpgs than we
wanted for the very small thumbs so we save these small 110 pixels for
web but the larger ( most useful to steal ;-) previews in sRGB with all
info intact. Even with a lot of compression small jpgs are relatively
large in file size in sRGB with preserved metadata. Its not an
issue for
the larger previews which typically display one at a time and
therefore
sensible to include data.
Pete
--
Peter Dean (Photographer)
agripicture.com
[phone]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Singh, Shangara]

Post by Leonide Principe
A Save for Web file cant have EXIF Data, these fields are disabled.

Leo

In Photoshop CS3, you will be able to preserve metadata in the Save
for Web dialog.

Post by Leonide Principe
Resuming, if i need EXIF in small web file, I have to go to
ImageReady.

Or use the File > Save As command and then select your output file
format. If you select JPEG, you will have the same compression
choices as Save for Web. Think of Save for Web as a mini version of
ImageReady. It has a lot of options but not as many, obviously, as
ImageReady, which a complete, stand alone application.

If replying, please do NOT quote my email address.

Shangara Singh.

Author & Photographer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
Hacking Photoshop CS2 http://www.shangarasingh.co.uk
Stock Photography http://www.mpxstockimages.co.uk
Examaids for Adobe-Macromedia http://www.examaids.com

[Singh, Shangara]

Post by Leonide Principe
Hi all, I dont know if this is my distraction, but I cant preserve
IPTC and EXIF data in the Save for Web Photoshop option.
There is a way to do this?

Save for Web is way behind the times. It still believes people are
using 14bpc dialups, so tries to save bytes, instead of embedded
metadata. You can use ImageReady, which is more suited to web and
screen work, and opt to save metadata. Alternatively, use the Save As
command in Photoshop and then select a format.

Please do NOT include my address in any reply.

Shangara Singh.

Author & Photographer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
Hacking Photoshop CS2 http://www.shangarasingh.co.uk
Stock Photography http://www.mpxstockimages.co.uk
Examaids for Adobe-Macromedia http://www.examaids.com

[Shaughn Clements]

Hi David

Just tried it with a PC and IE. The metadata came across.

Shaughn

Post by Thomas Hallstein

Post by Thomas Hallstein
Just a small clarification here: Metadata is not copied when you do a
screen-grab. You're only snatching pixels. If a person saves an image via
"Save Picture as" in their browser, they are copying the complete file and will
get any embedded metadata.
Best to All,
Tom
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Thomas Hallstein

Hi Tom
I just visited my own home page at http://www.photobar.com and

pulled

Post by Thomas Hallstein
of the happy new year picture by dragging it onto my desktop and it
came with all the embedded data?
Is this different because I'm using a MAC?
David Barr
--
Photobar Agricultural Stock Photography
Simplify your Search <http://www.photobar.com>Photobar
<http://www.cama.org/>CAMA
<http://www.nama.org/>NAMA

[Peter Bennett]

Hi David,

I know Tom uses a Windows machine so he may not know how to do a screen grab
on a Mac. What you described is not a screen grab but rather a download,
albeit you dragged it to your desktop. You can do a screen grab by pressing
Command Shift 3. What will appear on your desktop is a screen grab literally
of your whole desktop, which you can open in PS or Preview. It will be named
Picture 1. It's a handy little tool.

Thanks

Peter Bennett
Ambient Images Inc.
P: 310-312-6640

Specializing in New York and California images
http://www.californiastockphoto.com
http://www.newyorkstockphoto.com

Post by Thomas Hallstein

Post by Thomas Hallstein
Just a small clarification here: Metadata is not copied when you do a
screen-grab. You're only snatching pixels. If a person saves an image via
"Save Picture as" in their browser, they are copying the complete
file and will
get any embedded metadata.
Best to All,
Tom
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Thomas Hallstein

Hi Tom
I just visited my own home page at http://www.photobar.com and pulled
of the happy new year picture by dragging it onto my desktop and it
came with all the embedded data?
Is this different because I'm using a MAC?
David Barr
--
Photobar Agricultural Stock Photography
Simplify your Search <http://www.photobar.com>Photobar
<http://www.cama.org/>CAMA
<http://www.nama.org/>NAMA

[Ed Verkaik]

Post by Peter Dean
Save as sRGB rather than "for web"

There are better ways if you want really small jpegs but with metadata. I
run all images through SaveForWeb, strip all metadata, then batch reinsert
selected metadatta into thumbs (minimum contact url, copyright) and into
larger previews (5 fields) It means you won't have the full range of
caption-keywords there but enough basic data for identification at a much
lower file size (most <50k for 500p). In addition, before adding metadata
back to jpegs, I squeeze everything out of them with the utility "jstrip".

Ed Verkaik

[Leonide Principe]

Ed, the question is specifically about EXIF. Save for Web disable all
EXIF fields.
There is no problem for me, because I dont use EXIF in my web images.
On the other side IPTC fields are blank, but editable, and because I
put IPTC only in the final image, before publishing it, the copy/
past from my Keywords database conclude the process. There is no
problem too.
The question came when I have an image request from a client which
ask for EXIF embedded... but the group discussion have solved this
with Save As or ImageReady processing: I get my Master Tiff , resize,
Get Info, Replace xmp sidecar, Save As Jpeg... all metadatas are
present in this version.
The new CS3 is welcome to open the Save for web possibilities too.
On my point of view, based on my workflow, is very clear.
Thanks for helping, Leo




Leonide Principe - Amazon Stock Photography
Contato: ***@leonideprincipe.com
http://www.photoshelter.com/usr-show/U0000nKxqGuEZSYI
http://www.leonideprincipe.com/

Post by Ed Verkaik

Post by Peter Dean
Save as sRGB rather than "for web"

There are better ways if you want really small jpegs but with
metadata. I
run all images through SaveForWeb, strip all metadata, then batch reinsert
selected metadatta into thumbs (minimum contact url, copyright) and into
larger previews (5 fields) It means you won't have the full range of
caption-keywords there but enough basic data for identification at a much
lower file size (most <50k for 500p). In addition, before adding metadata
back to jpegs, I squeeze everything out of them with the utility "jstrip".
Ed Verkaik

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]